Monday, July 25, 2011

Update: The Norwegian killer sounds familiar

The latest reports about the Norwegian mass murder describe the killer as a fanatical anti-Muslimist and anti-Marxist. I have been reading snatches of his alleged writings online and I am just staggered by how familiar they all seem to me. His words are almost exactly like those of extreme anti-Muslim members of Orkut discussion forums, his fears of a Muslim invasion mirror theirs, his belief in a left-wing "Marxist" conspiracy in education, media and the EU (what both call the "EUSSR") is their belief.

The similarities are so strong that I want to wait a few days for more information. If the killer does appear to have been inspired by the kind of anti-Muslim views I've encountered in online debates then there are very important implications and I will be writing about it again.


  1. I believe Breivik had writings about 9/11 and Islam which is interesting because, as a "Christian", he murdered almost twice as many people per capita of the Norwegian population than the 9/11 hijackers did of the of the U.S population. Isn't it a scary thought that both sides are convinced God is on their side and are willing to do anything to defend that belief? I find their absolute conviction incomprehensible and their unreasonableness in the face of rationality chilling. Ideological dogmatism is so so dangerous. In my mind I try to simplify their actions by thinking that on top of their fanaticism they must have some kind of psychiatric disorder. Maybe that's why their fanatics in the first place? But then Hitler wasn't insane, nor was Stalin, and they epitomise ideological dogmatism in the twentieth century with an extensive murder portfolio to boot.

  2. *they're fanatics*

    I swear I'm forgetting how to distinguish all these samey words with different spellings.

  3. It may be too early to tell, but from what I've read so far he doesn't look like he was motivated strongly by religion. Browsing his (alleged) comments here:

    ...I see that the word "Jesus" is mentioned only once, in a sarcastic reference to "Jesus Christ Obama". The word "bible" is never mentioned. "God" is never mentioned. He explains once that he is Protestant, but the word "Protestant" appears only four times, "Catholic" only once.

    By comparison the word "conservative" comes 104 times. "Multicultural" 71 times. "Marxist" 116 times. "Islam" 75. "Demographic" 17. "Europe" 91. "Muslim" 104.

    On Orkut the individual whose comments most resemble this was a libertarian atheist member, dismissive of Christianity and loathing of Islam and any kind of left-wing perspective. His language was loaded with warnings about "cryptomarxists", "Islamofascists", and naive Western "halal hippies" - people like me who didn't want to fight the Muslims! He made bizarre alliances with radical Hindu nationalists who shared a common hatred for Muslims. He thought that anyone who disagreed with him must be some kind of fascist: "leftofascist" even!

    So he wasn't an old-style Christian conservative at all, rather a West-supremacist who thought our social and economic liberties, along with our rejection of racism, homophobia and sexism, made us superior to other cultures, especially the Muslims. The similarities between his language and that of this killer is so strong that immediately one of our old forum members started a thread wondering whether he might be the killer! He's not (wrong country, wrong name and he looks different) but these alleged comments look very like the Muslim-hating nonsense repeated from blogs our old member was constantly quoting.

  4. There are so many copy-paste job in his manifesto that I am not sure which words belong to him or not. In the comments link which I pasted above he says these:

    "I myself am a Protestant and baptized / conīŦrmed to me by my own free will when I was 15.

    But today's Protestant church is a joke. Priests in jeans who march for Palestine and churches that look like the minimalist shopping centers. I am a supporter of an indirect collective conversion of the Protestant church back to the Catholic. In the meantime, I vote for the most conservative candidates in church elections.The only thing that can save the Protestant church is to go back to basics."

    Having said that I agree that calling him a Christian extremist would be a stretch. I think he rather sees Christianity as a tool to stick Europe together. A rallying flag to use against Islam and Marxism. A national cultural inheritance that is just useful to preserve.

    That's the general attitude of counter jihadists. Of course some of them are religious but they are not necessarily attached to religion. Some of them are atheists. They avoid speaking out against Christianity too much for two reasons 1. It is not a big deal anymore. They consider it defanged. 2. Like I said, it is a useful rallying flag to unite Europeans against their perceived enemies.

    The EDL [English Defense League] uses a cross in their symbol and their motto is "in hoc signo vinces" [in this sign (cross) you will conquer]. The Siege of Vienna was broken by a Christian Holy League. Vlad Tepec was a very religious person. But I doubt their followers are particularly religious. It is just that history gives them some influence and like I said religion is a useful rallying tool. That's it.

    Totally pragmatical.

  5. Yes indeed. I've heard some anti-Muslim atheists talk about a "Judaeo-Christian" heritage in Europe, that while they aren't religious they see a role for Christianity in the development of the "West". They are concerned above all with defending the "West" from Muslim invasion and Christianity might seem, as you say, a useful rallying tool.

    I don't quite have a word for this kind of West-supremacist anti-Muslim attitude. It's not nationalism, since it embraces all the nations of the "West". Is it "civilisationalism"? "Westism"?

  6. Nah... Your "anti-Muslimism" covers it better. These guys are ready to cooperate with non-Western radical Hindus and Jews [I don't consider Israel/Jews particularly Western] as long as it suits them. The person you mentioned in your article created a personal cult followed by lots of Indians. They also support the Serbs [not "West"ern Europe, they fought wars with NATO and the USA] So it goes beyond Western nations or civilization. What unites them is a deep fear of Muslims around the world. As you know, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering".

  7. Haha well said - I can remember Ziyad using that last quote to one of our other old anti-Muslim members once! :P


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